Melanie’s comment on yesterday’s entry got my brain a-going. If this whole thing makes you weirdly uncomfortable, it’s cool. Go watch WwT instead. She’s super-cute, and I’m okay with the idea that not everyone wants to discuss (or read about) religious/spiritual stuff.
Now on to the point, Bill and I were both raised in Christian homes. Mine, Episcopalian; his, Baptist. Of the two of us, I’ve found it much, much easier to simply walk away from the label of “Christian”, if not all of the ideas of Christianity. But I hadn’t been raised in an environment where your options were “Jesus and Heaven” or “godless heathenry and hell”. Bill had. I don’t think that’s what his mom meant to do. (I have no idea what Bill’s dad wanted, but look, he’s 6′8″ and over 400 lbs. I’m not questioning jackshit that The Gene did, does or wants to do, okay?)
My MIL is a tolerant, loving person. I mean, the woman made sure I was okay with them saying grace before Thanksgiving dinner. (I was. We say grace before dinner at every meal in our house. It’s a nice thing.) So I’m pretty sure she just wanted her kids to have a foundation on which to build their own spiritual homes. She was raised Baptist, so that was her choice with her kids.
Not a big deal, except Bill is a Buddhist who can’t proclaim that because in his heart of hearts, he fears that saying he’s anything but a Christian means he’s a godless heathen who’s going straight to Hell. He doesn’t believe I’m going to Hell (or anyone else, for that matter, but like I said, he’s a Buddhist), but that fear, instilled in childhood, is hard to overcome for him.
So with our own children, we have chosen to go a completely non-traditional route. We talk to them about our beliefs, what other people believe, why we believe what we believe, etc etc etc. Our kids are being raised to, first and foremost, build a personal relationship with God. Without that, the rest is just so much lipservice.
They’re also being taught to view themselves as part of something greater, that all life is interconnected. They’re being taught that every action does, indeed, have a reaction and that their choices, good or bad, right or wrong, will impact them here and now, not in some distant afterlife. (I figure they’re just a little young to grasp the intricacies of karmic debt throughout lifetimes.) They’re being taught that service to others is also service to God and to oneself. I could go on and on here, but I think you’ve gotten the point.
Are we giving them the same foundation our parents gave us? No, but I don’t think the two are so different as everyone else seems to think.
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19 responses so far ↓
1 d // May 14, 2008 at 12:53 pm
That’s rad dude. That’s how Lorna is being raised as well.
I didn’t know Bill was Buddhist! So is Jim!
I’d have to say I’m Taoist pu pu platter.
Lorna believes that we are all interconnected and that she is a part of god as is everything.
And I don’t even think your kids are being raised in a faithless home dude. They’re being raised in a house with a non religious dogma. But faith, god, interconnectedness and responsibility for their behavior is still key. But without all the guilt, hell fire and damnation that some religions like to heave upon children.
So all the good things about religion and spirituality, but none of the other harmful things that a fundamentalist religion can do to you.
Kudos! And as you know, I could talk about this stuff ALL DAY LONG. Hence my Spiritual Fodder on teh LJ. I need to go post over there…I’ve been neglecting it.
2 Steph // May 14, 2008 at 1:24 pm
d - I guess I consider it “faithless” because there’s no particular religious or spiritual path being taught. Just basic ideas that apply to many faiths (if not all).
I keep meaning to crosspost this stuff to spiritualfodder, but I keep forgetting. DOH!
3 Krystie Lee // May 14, 2008 at 2:41 pm
My husband is Athiest, I go back and forth between Athiest and Agnostic. I think when our kid(s) are old enough to discuss it, we’ll just explain that lots of people believe in lots of things and lots of different Gods…yadda yadda yadda. I don’t care if they someday find a religion that they enjoy, as long as they always question what they’re told, think for themselves, and always respect the beliefs or non-beliefs of others.
4 matteroffactmommy // May 14, 2008 at 6:39 pm
you say… “are we giving them the same foundation our parents gave us? No…”
thing is, i think you are. just not the fire and brimstone kind of foundation. (bill must be a saint, i was raised baptist too - my brother was told he was going to hell for being left-handed, etc.etc., yadayada)
while you are not instilling the same EXACT foundation, you are still instilling within them the core values that you learned growing up. without the guilt and the going to hell bullshit… that we are all part of the greater good, etc. and i think that is fantastic.
i think our kids will be raised jewish. that is, unless all of the old jews die before our kids are old enough to give a shit… thankfully, our kids are only 4 and 2. so there is no pressure for hebrew school or bar/bat mitzvahs yet. by the time either is old enough to be jew-rific, the relatives who give a shit will be dead. and in hell. or in heaven. or in the ground. or in whatev.
5 Jean // May 14, 2008 at 7:06 pm
I agree with D that your kids aren’t being raised in a faithless home. It doesn’t matter that there’s no particular religious path being taught. Those basic ideas that belong to many faiths are important and a good foundation for your kids to start with when they figure out their own beliefs.
6 kendra // May 14, 2008 at 7:33 pm
Okay, Steph, I was reared a Baptist and my hubby, a Pentecostal. We now practice Zen philossophy in a way, but we do keep God as our universal power. My family would have a fit, and my mom keeps asking us when we are going to pick a church. I finally said, “You know, I’m not going to Hell.”
Dear Gravy, my kids are more adjusted than the kids in my family that go to church religiously. I make sure my mom admits to that too.
Oh, and if someone would tell my son that there was a chance he might end up in hell if he didn’t accpet God, he would already be in the insane asylum. No f—, really. Not doing that to my babes.
Go Bill and Steph.
7 Missy // May 14, 2008 at 8:50 pm
I am like Bill. Dude I was raised roman catholic and its so effing hard to shake that catholic guilt.
8 Steph // May 14, 2008 at 9:50 pm
Krystie Lee - That has been almost our EXACT approach when it comes to discussions about God…shoot, about nearly anything debatable really. “Well, we believe X, but other people believe Y. We don’t believe Y because :whatever reason here:, but you should respect other people’s beliefs since you want them to respect yours.”
MoFM - Woo. Jewish? I never, ever woulda called that one. I think my jaw might have just dropped even. LOL.
Jean - But it made for a catchy title, didn’t it? :grin:
Kendra - I bet that has been a tough transition for y’all. My dad was a Pentecostal (briefly), and I remember thinking that the folks who went to that particular church were some scary mofos. When they weren’t preaching about Hell, they were fantasizing about going to Heaven and being with Jesus. There was no here and now for them, except as their actions might send them to Satan or Jesus. I always felt like they never really got to *enjoy life.
And good for y’all - kids don’t need the stress of worrying about their immortal souls, IMO. They’ve got enough shit to deal with just figuring out how the fuck to make it in THIS world without also worrying about the next.
Missy - I’ve watched Bill struggle with it, and that’s a big part of why we’re not going the “traditional” route with them. I want them to come to their own decisions about God when they’re mature enough to handle it, y’know?
9 matteroffactmommy // May 14, 2008 at 10:04 pm
my husband’s jewish.
10 Steph // May 14, 2008 at 10:06 pm
MoFM - Well, I kind of figured that out. :grin: Does it bug you?
11 Myra // May 14, 2008 at 10:11 pm
“Our kids are being raised to, first and foremost, build a personal relationship with God. Without that, the rest is just so much lipservice.”
wow - i can so relate to that. i can’t think of a better way to express that thought. that’s exactly what we’re going for in our home. i’m so tired of being disappointed in people that i trusted because they loudly proclaimed their beliefs. to the point that it makes me run the other way now. everything you’ve said here makes so much sense. great post.
12 Steph // May 14, 2008 at 10:24 pm
Myra - Thanks. :)
13 Deb // May 15, 2008 at 1:09 am
I think that if kids are raised by authentic, open parents who allow them to develop their own relationship with God that is better than the foundation our parents gave us.
I was raised Catholic and I, like Bill, feel guilty in my heart of hearts, for thinking of pursuing another way to worship. I do not find satisfaction or contentment in my church now, and am looking for an alternative. But the guilt, such a terrible thing.
We want our kids to be empowered in their spirituality, not cowed by a CHURCH that tells them how to think.
The gift I want to give my kids is information and exposure to the different paths that lead to God, then give them the power of choice to walk down whatever path works best for them.
14 Melanie // May 15, 2008 at 2:53 am
Ahhh, Catholic guilt. That stuff is pretty fierce. It still gets to me every so often, but I don’t want to be a “Christmas Catholic” because I think those people are hypocrites.
15 Steph // May 15, 2008 at 11:02 am
Deb - Exactly. Just…exactly.
Melanie - Overcoming the belief that I was going to Hell for leaving Christianity was huge for me, and I was raised in an Episcopal home. I can only imagine what it does to y’all who were raised Catholic or Baptist or other faiths that focus so much on ONE RIGHT WAY.
16 matteroffactmommy // May 15, 2008 at 6:06 pm
the fact that he’s jewish doesn’t bother me. the fact that he expects our kids to be jewish does kinda. i mean, i enjoy the tradition of the jewish holidays. i enjoy the fact that uncle arthur forces me to read shit from the Passover HaggaDUH every year.
ugh.
i guess what bothers me is that, my husband thinks that his jewish-ness is SO MUCH A PART OF WHO HE IS. and it really isn’t. he’s all hung up on how “everyone hates the jews.” i mean they do. but there’s a reason for that. they’re a smug people. *bring on the lynch mob*
i don’t really like his family in general… but then again, they are the only jews i’ve been exposed to. they didn’t have jews in socal when i grew up. and if they did? well, they kept to themselves and didn’t get all WE’RE JEWISH FUCK YOU on everyone.
17 Steph // May 15, 2008 at 9:11 pm
MoFM - No lynch mobs will form here, I promise. :grin: And I totally get what you’re saying…and I think it applies to a lot of Jewish people. Being a Jew sometimes seems to be more *cultural than religious for some people.
18 Lindsey // May 19, 2008 at 3:57 pm
I’m with you, Steph. We raise our kids the same way. You develop a personal realitonship with God, you take responsibility for your behavior, words and actions, and expect to have to answer for all the nasty crap you pulled someday. But I don’t believe in Hell at all. I’m a petty little mess of a woman and I know that no matter how bad my kids messed up, I could never torment them for an hour, let alone forever. Hell just don’t jive with my idea of God. I think the people that can’t get their damn act together will just *poof* cease to exist. Much more humane and makes a lot more sense. To me, anyway. (But so does the idea that baking soda and baking powder are the same thing. So….I just try to be good.)
19 Steph // May 19, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Lindsey - It’s funny you put it like that, because that line of thinking was exactly my problem with being a Christian. I couldn’t imagine that God was willing to walk away from His children for all eternity just because they didn’t worship properly or ate pork or whatever. I believe in reincarnation - give ‘em as many chances as it takes to get their shit together. That’s pretty much how *I operate with my kids. :grin: